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A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:35 am
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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m.roth
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Folks,
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I
was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of
the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help
me make it usable.
mark
#####################################################################
1. This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share knowledge
about CentOS
and Linux. This is not a paid tech support organization - if you want
that, buy
a RedHat subscription.
2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps
you
should pay us. Before asking us, have you:
a) read the documentation (RTFM)?
b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs?
i) <http://centos.org>, and click on "information"
ii) <http://wiki.centos.org/>
c) googled for documents on the Web?
3. Many of your problems have been discussed and solved. Feel free to ask
for a link
to the solution, or the discussion.
4. When you post a question,
a) mention the version of CentOS, and of any other software;
b) give a full explanation of the problem, not merely "networking is
broke,
how do I fix it", or something like that, and
c) Include error messages if possible. Do *not* put pages of them - edit
so that you give only a few lines of example, or only the relevant
message lines, not, say, the entire dump of dmesg. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:06 am
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Les Mikesell
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On 7/30/2010 9:35 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
| Quote: | Folks,
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I
was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of
the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help
me make it usable.
|
I don't quite see the point of posting stuff to try to control what
people who don't read before posting will do... But, if you want to
make the futile effort, the only thing that matters to me is that the
subject line is written carefully to reflect the topic. It is easy
enough to ignore off-topic postings as long as the subject identifies
them as such. A FAQ on how to answer might be more useful, pointing out
that the list is archived in various places and the replies will come up
in future searches, thus the replies that tell people to search for
themselves instead of including the definitive link to an answer not
only are useless to the requester but interfere with everyone's ability
to search later.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com |
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:59 pm
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Tom H
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On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, <m.roth@5-cent.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I
was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of
the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help
me make it usable.
#####################################################################
1. This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share knowledge
about CentOS
and Linux. This is not a paid tech support organization - if you want
that, buy
a RedHat subscription.
2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps
you
should pay us. Before asking us, have you:
a) read the documentation (RTFM)?
b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs?
i) <http://centos.org>, and click on "information"
ii) <http://wiki.centos.org/>
c) googled for documents on the Web?
3. Many of your problems have been discussed and solved. Feel free to ask
for a link
to the solution, or the discussion.
4. When you post a question,
a) mention the version of CentOS, and of any other software;
b) give a full explanation of the problem, not merely "networking is
broke,
how do I fix it", or something like that, and
c) Include error messages if possible. Do *not* put pages of them - edit
so that you give only a few lines of example, or only the relevant
message lines, not, say, the entire dump of dmesg.
|
First the negative comments.
In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary.
In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really
unnecessary.
Second the positive comments.
Overall, a very good undertaking.
In (4)
- use a meaningful subject
- separate opinion from fact
- use a pastebin to post a full log |
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:05 pm
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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m.roth
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First of all, I want to thank everyone who's responded so far - keep them
emails coming, boys and girls! (Seriously - I mean it.)
Next:
Tom H wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, <m.roth@5-cent.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I
was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of
the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help
me make it usable.
#####################################################################
1. This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share
knowledge about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support
|
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organization
| Quote: | | Quote: | - if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should,
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<snip>
| Quote: | First the negative comments.
In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary.
|
Why?
| Quote: |
In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really
unnecessary.
|
Again, why? *Part* of the reason are the folks who come on, and give us
either a Windows user type of complaint (it doesn't work!), or who seem to
want us to write them a step-by-step for what they need to do (and some of
them have had RHCE and other certs to their sigfile, which tells us how
solid those certs are), who obviously have never even *tried* to look for
the answers.
Some of us get irritated with that.
| Quote: |
Second the positive comments.
Overall, a very good undertaking.
|
Again, thanks. I'm thinking of this in the way of the FAQs we had/have on
usenet.
| Quote: |
In (4)
- use a meaningful subject
- separate opinion from fact
- use a pastebin to post a full log
|
What's the link to pastebin (I always just cut&paste, and only give a few
relevant lines, with all the other kruft cut out, so I've never needed
it)?
mark |
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:33 pm
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Bowie Bailey
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On 7/30/2010 3:05 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
| Quote: | First of all, I want to thank everyone who's responded so far - keep them
emails coming, boys and girls! (Seriously - I mean it.)
Next:
Tom H wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, <m.roth@5-cent.us> wrote:
| Quote: | I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I
was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of
the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help
me make it usable.
#####################################################################
1. This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share
knowledge about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support
|
|
organization
| Quote: | | Quote: | - if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should,
|
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<snip>
| Quote: | First the negative comments.
In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary.
|
Why?
| Quote: | In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really
unnecessary.
|
Again, why? *Part* of the reason are the folks who come on, and give us
either a Windows user type of complaint (it doesn't work!), or who seem to
want us to write them a step-by-step for what they need to do (and some of
them have had RHCE and other certs to their sigfile, which tells us how
solid those certs are), who obviously have never even *tried* to look for
the answers.
Some of us get irritated with that.
|
Agreed, but the phrases that Tom wanted removed give a whiny/defensive
tone. Keep the main points, just remove those phrases and stick to
telling the poster what we want him to do.
| Quote: | | Quote: | Second the positive comments.
Overall, a very good undertaking.
|
Again, thanks. I'm thinking of this in the way of the FAQs we had/have on
usenet.
| Quote: | In (4)
- use a meaningful subject
- separate opinion from fact
- use a pastebin to post a full log
|
What's the link to pastebin (I always just cut&paste, and only give a few
relevant lines, with all the other kruft cut out, so I've never needed
it)?
|
Umm.... That would be www.pastebin.com... :)
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pastebin
--
Bowie |
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:45 pm
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Tom H
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On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM, <m.roth@5-cent.us> wrote:
| Quote: | First of all, I want to thank everyone who's responded so far - keep them
emails coming, boys and girls! (Seriously - I mean it.)
|
You're welcome.
| Quote: | Next:
Tom H wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, <m.roth@5-cent.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I
was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of
the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help
me make it usable.
#####################################################################
1. This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share
knowledge about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support
|
|
organization
| Quote: | | Quote: | - if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should,
|
|
<snip>
| Quote: | First the negative comments.
In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary.
|
Why?
| Quote: |
In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really
unnecessary.
|
Again, why? *Part* of the reason are the folks who come on, and give us
either a Windows user type of complaint (it doesn't work!), or who seem to
want us to write them a step-by-step for what they need to do (and some of
them have had RHCE and other certs to their sigfile, which tells us how
solid those certs are), who obviously have never even *tried* to look for
the answers. Some of us get irritated with that.
|
I understand and share your frustration(s) but both these sentences
seem too petty to be in an informative email.
| Quote: | | Quote: | In (4)
- use a meaningful subject
- separate opinion from fact
- use a pastebin to post a full log
|
What's the link to pastebin (I always just cut&paste, and only give a few
relevant lines, with all the other kruft cut out, so I've never needed
it)?
|
Sometimes what the person asking for help selects to post is
irrelevant so a full log output on http://pastebin.centos.org/ can be
useful. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:53 pm
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Michael Klinosky
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m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
| Quote: | 2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps
you
should pay us. Before asking us, have you:
a) read the documentation (RTFM)?
b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs?
i) <http://centos.org>, and click on "information"
ii) <http://wiki.centos.org/>
c) googled for documents on the Web?
|
Line c should include a link - thus:
http://google.com/linux |
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:07 am
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Geoff Galitz
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| Quote: |
#####################################################################
1. This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share knowledge
about CentOS
and Linux. This is not a paid tech support organization - if you want
that, buy
a RedHat subscription.
2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps
you
should pay us. Before asking us, have you:
a) read the documentation (RTFM)?
b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs?
i) <http://centos.org>, and click on "information"
ii) <http://wiki.centos.org/>
c) googled for documents on the Web?
3. Many of your problems have been discussed and solved. Feel free to ask
for a link
to the solution, or the discussion.
|
I prospose rephrasing the above FAQ entries in a more neutral tone:
1) What are my Centos support options?
Generally speaking, you have three options:
1) The centos-users mailing list.
Developers, systems administrators and end-users all contribute on
the
mailing list on a best effort basis. Questions are answered as
people's time and
experience allow. This is a volunteer effort and there are no
gaurutees anything will
be answered or answered in a give time frame, though we do our best
and
historically are quite good.
It is strongly recommended you search the archives first, as you can
get an answer
much faster and we can focus our time on new issues and projects.
2) The Centos IRC channel.
The channel can be found on irc.freenode.net, channel #centos
Same ground rules as the mailing list.
3) Commercial support.
There are number of commercial support providers. They are best
found
by a search on your favorite search engine. Alternatively switching
over to
Redhat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) and purchasing a support contract is a
good
option.
If you require answers or support at a moment's notice, this is your
best option.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
Just my two cents. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:24 am
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Geoff Galitz
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Oops, some copyediting of my previous post and the addition of a managed
services option to my FAQ suggestion follows:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I prospose rephrasing the above FAQ entries in a more neutral tone:
1) What are my Centos support options?
Generally speaking, you have three options:
1) The centos-users mailing list.
Developers, systems administrators and end-users all contribute on
the mailing list on a best effort basis. Questions are answered as
people's time and experience allow. This is a volunteer effort and there
are no guaruntees anything will be answered or answered in a give time
frame, though we do our best and historically are quite good.
It is strongly recommended you search the archives first, as you can
get an answer much faster and we can focus our time on new issues and
projects.
2) The Centos IRC channel.
The channel can be found on irc.freenode.net, channel #centos
Same ground rules as the mailing list.
3) Commercial support.
There are a number of commercial support providers. They are best
found by a search on your favorite search engine. If you are open to not
running your own systems then subscribing to a managed hosting provider who
offers Centos as a platform is also a good option. Again, refer to your
favorite search engine. Alternatively switching over to Redhat Enterprise
Linux (RHEL) and purchasing a support contract is a good option.
If you require answers or support at a moment's notice, this is your best
option.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
I do think it is worth the effort to get this FAQ out. Just because some
users will ask questions without reading does not mean they all will. More
importantly, is it possible to get this FAQ sent to people immediately when
they subscribe to the mailing list? That would get us a lot of bang for the
buck.
Just my two cents. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:08 am
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Bob McConnell
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Geoff Galitz wrote:
| Quote: | Oops, some copyediting of my previous post and the addition of a managed
services option to my FAQ suggestion follows:
|
A couple more spelling errors to correct:
| Quote: | are no guaruntees anything will be answered or answered in a give time
|
guarantees
| Quote: | Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
|
appropriate
Bob McConnell
N2SPP |
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:18 am
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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Akemi Yagi
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On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:06 AM, Geoff Galitz <geoff@galitz.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Generally speaking, you have three options:
1) The centos-users mailing list.
|
| Quote: | 2) The Centos IRC channel.
|
| Quote: | 3) Commercial support.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
|
As a mailing list user, you may not be aware of the CentOS Forums...
Their FAQ & Readme can be found here:
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=47
At any rate, let's not forget about the CentOS wiki Help page:
http://wiki.centos.org/Documentation
Akemi |
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:37 am
Subject: A proposed CentOS mailing list FAQ |
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JohnS
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On Sat, 2010-07-31 at 06:18 -0700, Akemi Yagi wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:06 AM, Geoff Galitz <geoff@galitz.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Generally speaking, you have three options:
1) The centos-users mailing list.
|
| Quote: | 2) The Centos IRC channel.
|
| Quote: | 3) Commercial support.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
|
As a mailing list user, you may not be aware of the CentOS Forums...
Their FAQ & Readme can be found here:
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=47
At any rate, let's not forget about the CentOS wiki Help page:
http://wiki.centos.org/Documentation
Akemi
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---
What about yalls awsome script you guys have?
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25128&forum=47
John |
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